Does anyone know if the charge is 1st degree murder only, or are there lesser included charges also?
The only charge now with respect to the killing is first degree murder, but I think, at the close of evidence, the defense will ask the judge to tell the jury it can find him guilty of second degree murder (unreasonable belief in self-defense), which is probationable.
Multiple counts of first degree murder; 16 counts of aggravated battery; and official misconduct.
I don’t understand 2 things: 1) In 2014, the LAPD had 3,200 TASERs in use. That covered all almost all officers on patrol. By early 2015, ALL LAPD LEOs had a “shall carry” mandate for TASERs after the Department ordered 4,000 more (for a total of 7,200).
?: 2014, did the Chicago PD not have many TASERs in the field such that they needed to wait for a “TASER Unit”(per the testimony) in this case.?
Also, I’m not a lawyer, but given my muni courtroom experience—is it me—or are these CPDs particularly dense? Or are they just being obtuse as part of the thin blue line? The last witness did a 6th grade job of explaining what a TASER is. The dispatcher yesterday did not know what area of the city she was covering dispatch for or whether the audio files were stored digitally. Either it’s amateur hour, or they are just not trying to help the prosecutor. Any thoughts?
CPD are not the brightest bulbs on the tree… most barely made it through H.S. and many use outside help ( cheat) to pass police examine…
you have no idea what you are talking about Jordan-gram.
if you want to know the truth here it is. look into the promotion cheating scandal at the top level of the CPD. that is where you find the cheaters. Officers of the CPD are a pretty sharp bunch. they have had to lower the standards recently to fill the ranks and i’ll let you figure that out for yourself lest you judge me.
To David, the dispatchers handle radio traffic, oftentimes unbelievable amount of radio traffic and for the most part do an outstanding job of knowing who is where and who needs what. Toss a shooting into the mix and everybody is calling in. they do a great job. when they get a break they may get put at a different work station handling different districts. does it matter if she knows the streets like a map as long as she knows where to send the troops.
Are the files stored digitally, who knows, why would she even care? A whole different department save the files and secures them.
i didn’t see the testimony about tasers but know something about them. If you need to deploy one, you call out three warnings minimally, then you put the red dot on a major muscle group and pull the trigger, sometimes they work as advertised, many many times not. You runout of options about then.
Hi Joe. The officer on the stand literally had a hard time describing what a TASER was (not the SOP for field use).
To joe august, sorry to burst your bubble but I know first hand many CPD have cheated on the examine. CPD solves less than 20% of crime (In NY & LA bigger cities & those #s are reversed). Recently they’ve been caught literally sleeping on the job Joe, (google it LOL), We are talking low IQ police officers. If CPD every decided to clean house, I estimate only 20% of CPD would be left… Face facts 70% to 80% of these jokers are not the sharpest knives in the drawer and they’re corrupt to boot! https://abc7chicago.com/18-exonerated-after-charges-tied-to-corrupt-chicago-police-sergeant-dismissed/4326686/o
Jordon-Gram, you sound like the typical Monday morning quarterback over there on your keyboard. Clearly, you love the fake news and think you could do a better job at facing what most fear. Apply to the department then since you are so savvy and could do so much better. Maybe you could make the department that much better and solve all the crime Chicago has to offer. You like to compare to NY and LA I see, but why don’t you compare their policies and see how they can actually police a little more due to the lack of the liberal agenda completely interfering? Have people been tired or worn out on the job? Have people been put in precarious situations? Do people work extremely unorthodox hours? The answer is yes to all three questions posed. The difference here is a person like YOU who has never been in a position like this should have no opinion because it’s not valid based on your lack of experience. If you read a book on surgery does that make you a surgeon? This is Americas problem these days where individuals like YOU feed into an anti-police climate. Would the city be better off without police? Maybe a sovereign city? We can point the fingers at numerous things, but facts are facts. The city budget is manipulated by the politicians and thus leaves civil servants short on tools, like the teasers you mentioned in a question. CPD did not have the funding for everyone to carry a taser or have the taser training and certification for that matter….but you can bet Tom dart got his inmates to have yoga class and plasma TV’s on every tier in the cook county department of corrections. You see, it is bigger than us and we need to gain the facts by digging deeper than what media wants to provide you with. I hope I was able to provide you some barebone knowledge to some of this based on knowing a few people on the inside and outside with all different political views.
ractical-man I know the truth with facts can be difficult to process but you’ll be fine once you get over the shock… CPD is dirty facts not fiction … documented not speculated … ractical-man nice try at deflection but no cigar!
Just facts not fiction… https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/van-dyke-proffer-coverup-conspiracy-email-applaud-second-guess/
Jordon Gram, I’m also not sure where you get your statistics from either, but does one rotten apple spoil the bunch in your methodology of life? I’ve run into numerous officers in Chicago who have degrees no I’m not referring to just an associates degree either, but bachelors, masters and some with doctorates as well. Is your viewpoint this warped because of bad past experiences with CPD or do you live in a fictional world where everyone is good except for the police? I guess this would make more sense coming from a millennial who doesn’t have the upbringing most past generations received and are a bit far from reality, in my experiences anyway. Do you stereotype other groups as well or make judgements on different groups of people like the Jews, African Americans, Hispanics and other ethnicities? Just curious as to what makes a guy like you pass judgement onto a group of individuals such as the police and what other prejudices you have based on the perfect life you lead…..
I wish you the best with your life in the warped world you live and can only hope you never have to rely on others to come to your aid….but you’ll clearly be fine because you know how to handle everything given ALL your experience. That being said, I see you changed your “name” for the post so perhaps this is your pseudo-name? I see our maturity levels are on opposite ends of the earth just like our viewpoints, but at least I can say I didn’t have to revolt to childish name play on words as you did. In the end, I wish you the best finding a country where you can hide from all corruption and continually disgrace those who fight to protect your rights. Stay safe and be well!
Practical-man: I agree with most of what you have stated, and can understand as well as respect your views. However, our system as a whole is broken and is in desperate need of repair much beyond you or me.
As to Jordon Gram or Graham: You sir, should be ashamed of yourself for making such a statement(s) as you exhibited and downplay the men and women protecting us from evil. Have you no dignity or respect? Do you also speak ill of the men and women fighting behind enemy lines risking their lives every day so we can have what we do at this point; freedom? There are many veterans in the world today who have at the very least earned and now deserve much more than they are given. Let us not take for granted all that was given to us by standing up for what we believe and making our country strong because of it. People lose their lives every day keeping our rights intact and protecting us from harm. In fact, I’ve read numerous articles depicting it is all of about 1% who choose the career of Police Officer. I’ll leave you with one question to ponder upon: If it was that easy to become a law enforcement official and work the streets 24/7, wouldn’t more of us be one of them? I believe there is a reason only 1% do this work/gods work, and it isn’t for having to work the long hours, work on holidays or go into situations most run from. May god bless you and keep you, all of you.
Did you see the video of the man that a cop used a taser? That guy grabbed the wires. It was a touch scary.
Just so we are clear my name is Jordon Gram… I can see from your comment, I touched a nerve. Grow up take off your rose colored glasses…CPD does NOT solve crime (solving only 20% google it), CPD is corrupt (google it) CPD has a history of torture (google it) and a large # of CPD officers are poorly educated ( google it). I get it … your ideals are being challenged and it appears my comments have shattered your world view of Cops. If there are any good cops they are silent when it comes to exposing bad cops… this is why CPD has been labeled one of the most corrupt. These joker even tried falsifying their reports from this case. I think the officers who falsified documents/evidence (google it) go on trial in November. Bottom line CPD must clean house in order to gain credibility … and I don’t see that happening … the saga continues…
Nice try at being dismissive of facts however it’s time to get your head out of the sand… I get it …shattering your world view of officer friendly can be difficult to process. You’ll be fine once you’ve researched the info I’ve Presented … or maybe you won’t be fine or won’t research the info I’ve presented in my comments… facts can sometimes cause anxiety to those who aren’t prepared to receive facts.
Jordan….do you live in Chicago? Are you CPD? Do you personally know anyone on CPD? I can’t even comprehend your thoughts on this and no idea where you’re getting these stats…
Each stat I’ve sited can easily be verified … do the research… I don’t debate facts…. I’m not a member of CPD, however I’m privy to inside info from CPD rank and file… we are all untitled to our own opinions but we are Not untitled to our own fact… research CPD learn the facts…
I usually don’t engage in online discussions of politics or religion, but in this particular case- I feel the need to comment. Unless ANY of you have raised a weapon in self-defense or otherwise- you simply can’t comprehend the amount of data your brain has to process in such a short amount of time.
I have personally been placed into high-stress drills with firearms as had my SO, and the results were startling. Luckily, I personally did a good job with threat assessment and restraint, but SEVERAL people who were placed into the same scenarios fired preemptively. This also included a few peace officers who were part of the training as well.
You can say that he should have had restraint, he should have watched the other officers, he should have waited… but you really need to consider the human element for a second here. From his perspective (VERY important here) the story probably played out something like this:
– He gets dispatched to a crime in progress where he witnesses a man initially running from an officer.
– His partner pursues the suspect while on foot, makes a decision to use the vehicle as a “barrier” to stop the suspect.
– When Van Dyke gets out of the vehicle, he sees the suspect change his behavior as he walks in the direction of their vehicle.
– Although the suspect was walking perpendicular to them along the center line, he was still about even with the offices when he turn and Van Dyke STRESS FIRED.
From the surface, it would appear that Van Dyke used excessive force and maybe could have waited, but… his testimony does hold some validity. I am not saying the he is justified in firing 16 rounds into a suspect armed with a knife, but based on his testimony and the video (I actually do video production as a career, so there is some legitimacy to the video angle claim), it was clear tunnel-vision and fear was a major factor.
Putting the corruption in the CPD and within the city government aside, I honestly believe he felt the threat was credible and that he was in danger. Contrary to what people who aren’t LEO might want to believe, officers DON’T HAVE CONVERSATIONS OVER THE RADIO. They simply use it for brief updates and to call for help. So there was no easy way for him to hear or know what the other officers were doing. It’s that simple.
Do I think he used excessive force? Yes, but that’s easy for all of us to judge by not being in that exact situation at the moment, and because we know the whole story- he only had a sliver of it at that moment. Do I think the cover-up made it worse? Hell yes! Rahm was trying to protect his ass in an impending election and needed to look good. By covering it up, it made Van Dyke look even worse.
Did he screw up and unfairly took a life that night? Absolutely. However, I don’t think any of this is murder. I do think he was (as was MANY CPD officers were at that time) improperly trained and not mentally prepared to fire his weapon. Remember- it was the fist time he ever fired his weapon at a suspect.
Murderer? No, but I think he was genuinely scared and reacted with an overzealous response. He most certainly is responsible for taking a life, but I don’t see him as a murderer.
@BetterCallSomeoneElse , to quote you “he was genuinely scared and reacted with an overzealous response” my questions are … if he was ‘scared’ why didn’t he wait for the TASER? Why be over zealous?
In the past Van Dyke has had at least 20 complaints filed against him by citizens of Chicago, this averages out to 1 complaint per year. Working as an officer is a job you seek out and apply for, cops aren’t drafted by CPD to serve and protect… Van Dyke could have easily quit and found employment that better suited him.
At least 1 of Van Dykes’ previous Victims had the City of Chicago paying some were around 300K to settle. Laquan McDonald’s family was paid a settlement of 5 Million(and they didn’t bring a law suit against Chicago).
Van Dykes cohorts will be on trial soon (November 2018), I’m sure you remember… the other cops who lied and attempted to cover up evidence, filing false reports of what they witnessed the night Van Dyke murdered Laquan McDonald.
Van Dyke murdered a teenager who posed no REAL threats to him or any of the other Officers on scene.
Oh one more thing … I think we can all agree, Van Dykes’ selective memory when testifying was truly cringe worthy… Bottom line Jason Van Dyke belongs in Prison because he’s a murderer. ____ please forgive any typos
Gram, you’re a complete moron on everything you’ve stated in all your lib-tard philosophies. You’re a coward, armchair quarterback and one who clearly involves in the propaganda of labeling those who have more authority than you. I’m not sure if it’s because mommy didn’t tell you she loved you enough or daddy didn’t hug you enough. Let me first start off with stating, I am NOT an officer of the law nor a veteran. Second, I want to thank the others who have tried to make sense of what this fool is stating. Gram, check your references before going on with your “facts” as if you are the Doctor of all knowledge In this field. All “working” officers get beefs/complaints because the “bad guys” want to get them removed from their areas so they can continue their illegal activity. I know, you’ll pull your fact out from nbc or abc or Obama to combat that statement. You see, you clearly don’t know what the streets are like or those that live/come from the streets. I am one of those people and also one who doesn’t have the cleanest history with law enforcement. However, I was always treated like a human being when in custody. I learned through my years how the street would try to use their upper hand as times changed to get officers removed from areas by fabricating stories or getting them to finally fall off their square. 16 shots we can all agree was excessive. You declaring murder hands down is a joke, like yourself. Where you EVER in his shoes? In his head? Had his experiences on the street? You have no right to judge him or anyone! This is coming from a felon who had to learn things the hard way. You must have been the kid who was beat up on the playground, never made the sport teams and was too afraid for the military. I’d bet you probably still live in your parents basement. Regardless, Chicago ALWAYS pays out. Do some more investigative work and see that this deviant “poor child” in your eyes was a ward of the state…..and the artificial mommy got 5million of our tax paying money. For what? You are so crooked on your views that you should run for a political office in Chicago because people of your lack of intelligence would probably vote for you. It’s funny how we always love when the police issue a ticket for parking on the street during rush hour slowing down the flow for us to get home yet always hate the cop who writes YOU a ticket when parking on the street during rush hour. Talk about a double edged sword/ double standard. This city is more rampant and wild than ever before, and I personally appreciate the men and women wearing those badges keeping us safe. You should too. In fact, why don’t you just adopt one of these wards or take in one of these “less fortunate” individuals and see how well that works in your neighborhood, your home and with your family. Good luck pal! I hope you run into my cousin, karma. Sure I’ll see you on the next ballot now that I can vote again. Good riddance gram.
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